After seeing the post regarding non-union recording in Seattle, it made me wonder: Is it really worth it to join? Why?

Would it be worth all my hard-earned dollars to join the union? Where (as in location) would joining the union be most beneficial? Who actually would benefit from joining? How would they benefit? Downsides to joining/not joining?

Not a union member, but am looking at my options. Looking at all sides, welcoming all opinions.

AngelaG

I would say you dont have a choice if you want an orchestra gig. Most orchestras above the community level are union bands. In your state of Texas, it is a "Right to work" state, but in the big picture that doesnt mean much.

Know what to expect: nothing. You will not be getting gigs, calls, they wont know your name. They will take your money and the only time they will contact you is when your next money is due.

Like anything, I suppose if you work it it can work for you. You get a book with all the local members names and numbers. Usually in the back they will have contractors or leaders, you could send them resumes etc.

There is a credit union. Benefits are almost none unless you pay in or your job does. You get a paper once a month with job openings but you get that here for free.

Some locals are better than others. Some I have been in try very hard, others are semi-corrupt and do nothing.

Well, look at what you don't get when you record in Seattle:

1. Nowhere near the hourly rate for the recording gig itself.
2. No residuals or pension contributions

It might not seem like much in the early part of your career, but residuals and pension contributions might save your bacon later on.

It really comes down to intellectual property - you sign away your rights to any compensation for the future uses of work that you have made an indelible contribution.

I agree that pension and residuals are great, but I've been in the union over 20 years - I make a living as a musician performaing as a freelancer and on a few orchestra CDs and...that pension will not do much for me....as for residuals, I have yet to hear about a non-crossover classical cd/record to make money where residuals amount to anything!

I feel that the people that benefit the most from the union are those in orchestras - full time orchestras that is. The rest of us send in our money, get our 2% taken from each pay check and very little help - but they will help us when we ask and it is something they can help with.

I'm not pro union and not anti union - but realistic. As a free lance musician I am in several different locals as I need to to keep my work...I'm okay with that as we need the union to fight for fair pay, pension and benefits for those in the big (top 10) orchestras because when their wages and benefits go down...we freelancers will be just that free!

Being a union member means nothing and can be really annoying 'til you need it the most.

That time usually happens during a labor dispute (strike, lockout, contentious negotiations, a conductor who does not like orchestra musicians, etc.) If and when that happens, you'll be glad that you are a member.

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Originally posted by weiner2:
I agree that pension and residuals are great, but I've been in the union over 20 years - I make a living as a musician performaing as a freelancer and on a few orchestra CDs and...that pension will not do much for me....as for residuals, I have yet to hear about a non-crossover classical cd/record to make money where residuals amount to anything!

True, but there is a substantial motion picture scoring industry operating in Seattle, and those types of sessions for AFM union musicians do produce healthy residuals and pension contributions.

I am a relatively succesful freelance musician (i.e. I make a decent living at it), and unfortunately I have found that the union will do nothing for me. I pay several thousand a year to the union for the sub-work I do in various orchestras, and I get no pension contributions, etc for the work I do. I have no health care benefits, no insurance benefits, etc. Worse, when I have contacted the union about breached promises by member orchestras - for example being booked and then unbooked for a union gig, they have informed me that unless I have a contract in writing, they are not prepared to do anything for me. I have yet to be offered a writen contract for subwork from any orchestra I work for - it is always done by phone, and I don't think I would be very popular if I demanded a contract everytime I was contracted for a week's work. Although I am pro-union in virtually every other situation, I think it is ludicrous that freelancers are paying such high amounts to the AFM for no protection whatsoever. Essentially, we are subsidizing those who work full-time in orchestras. I have no doubt that the union is valuable for these people, but there must be a better system for people like me.....

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Originally posted by willow:
I am a relatively succesful freelance musician (i.e. I make a decent living at it), and unfortunately I have found that the union will do nothing for me. I pay several thousand a year to the union for the sub-work I do in various orchestras, and I get no pension contributions, etc for the work I do. I have no health care benefits, no insurance benefits, etc. Worse, when I have contacted the union about breached promises by member orchestras - for example being booked and then unbooked for a union gig, they have informed me that unless I have a contract in writing, they are not prepared to do anything for me. I have yet to be offered a writen contract for subwork from any orchestra I work for - it is always done by phone, and I don't think I would be very popular if I demanded a contract everytime I was contracted for a week's work. Although I am pro-union in virtually every other situation, I think it is ludicrous that freelancers are paying such high amounts to the AFM for no protection whatsoever. Essentially, we are subsidizing those who work full-time in orchestras. I have no doubt that the union is valuable for these people, but there must be a better system for people like me.....

We must have been seperated at birth This is the reality of my life as well.

quote:

True, but there is a substantial motion picture scoring industry operating in Seattle, and those types of sessions for AFM union musicians do produce healthy residuals and pension contributions.

Good for them, but MY money pays for that. You are talking about a small group of people benefitting from a national Union. It does the rest of us no good if the NY Phil gets Starbucks coffee instead of Folgers in their contract or If 20 connected people playing Radio City gigs get 800 instead of $750 a DAY.

For the people like Willow and myself, we pay the same dues and more because we are in several unions. There's no steenkin pension There is no recourse, no communication even, it's simply a matter of giving them money for gigs you get on your own. The Union has never called me except for late dues. Ever. Never ever.

Willow is correct: freelancers subsidize Orchestra gigs and the very few who do things like movies. For those of us that dont want fulltime Orchestra gigs, its pretty much a joke.

I'm not going to argue whether one should or should not belong to the union but if you do belong and played a "union job" - that is where a union contract was filed - you should be getting money credited to your pension. It has nothing to with whether you're a free-lancer or not. I was a union free-lancer in New York City -- classical, jazz, theatre, club dates -- for 20 years, then managed several free-lance union orchestras.

It's true that you have to have had a certain amount credited over the years in order to actually draw a pension when you retire but if you feel that you were entitled to pension benefits you should really call your Local or the Federation and have them investigate.

quote:

Originally posted by TrickySam9:
I'm not going to argue whether one should or should not belong to the union but if you do belong and played a "union job" - that is where a union contract was filed - you should be getting money credited to your pension. It has nothing to with whether you're a free-lancer or not. I was a union free-lancer in New York City -- classical, jazz, theatre, club dates -- for 20 years, then managed several free-lance union orchestras.

It's true that you have to have had a certain amount credited over the years in order to actually draw a pension when you retire but if you feel that you were entitled to pension benefits you should really call your Local or the Federation and have them investigate.

Have them investigate what? Themselves?

There IS NO pension. Some orchestra may have pension clauses in their CBA, thats a different thing altogether. Some freelance orchestras may give into the pension fund but VERY few do.

I get a statement every year, it says who gives and who does not. 95% do not, and like Willow I am working all the time at different stuff.

If your freelance gigs in NYC paid in, good for you. It's not the norm in the markets I have lived, there simply is none.

Yes, I've had the same experience as Cygnus. Most of my gigs do NOT pay pension, even though they are union. A lot of my work is with "B" level orchestras, and although their full-time members get pension, subs don't (this is specified in their contracts), I would say that at most 15% of my union work is pensionable, while I pay dues on 100% of it. I'm sure it might be different in NY - with so many more ensembles there, it's probably a more supportive local....

I also get my pension statements every year - for a number of years now, and it is shocking how few orchestras pay it for subs. The first year when I was still thinking the union might help me out, I called them three times to ask them about why so little was pensionable, but nobody ever called me back.

Another good point that Cygnus made was that as freelancers we often have to belong to more than one local, which can double or triple (or more) our yearly dues....

Some things I've thought of that the union COULD do to help people like us: Insist that orchestras maintain minimums (i.e. if someone books out or leaves, they have to hire subs or hold auditions). Obviously ensure that everybody on a union gig receives a pension contribution. Provide assistance with taxes for self-employed freelancers (are there any other kind?). Ensure that once we are booked for a gig, be it by phone, e-mail, or written contract, that we are paid in full, even if it is decided that our services are no longer needed at a later date. Get rid of this ridiculous rule requiring us to join multiple locals. This is just a start - obviously some form of medical, dental, maternity benefits, etc would be wonderful.

Sorry for all the rants - I feel very strongly on this subject, and although I've approached my local (very politely) on many of these issues, the response has been a complete slap in the face.

Why is it necessary to belong to several locals? Perhaps some reciprocity or national membership would be helpful.

quote:

the response has been a complete slap in the face.

Wow, you got a response?

I would say the most frustrating aspect is being in multiple locals, its a crime. There is no reason for it, it's a national union.

quote:

Originally posted by Phoenix:
Why is it necessary to belong to several locals? Perhaps some reciprocity or national membership would be helpful.

Its not. Its merely the way it is. If you dont join the other local, you dont work there. We are sheeple.

quote:

I would say the most frustrating aspect is being in multiple locals, its a crime. There is no reason for it, it's a national union.

I may be mistaken but I think the AFM is the only "entertainment" union with individual locals (and individual membership dues, pay scales, contracts, work rules, etc.) around the country. The others - Actors Equity, AGMA, AGVA - don't work this way.

Equity is organized in an interesting way: the different contracts and pay scales are based on the kind of show you're in (summer stock, regional, touring, Broadway, etc.) and also the size of the theatre you're performing in. The bigger the theatre - meaning the producer makes more money - the more the actors get paid. Makes sense, no?

This has another salutory effect - it gives a chance for small theatres to exist. In New York City, for example, there are something like 250 off-Broadway and off-off Broadway theatre companies. They all hire actors, directors, costume designers, set designers, lighting designers, stage crew, box office personnel, etc.

Last time I checked there weren't 250 orchestras in New York City.

If you get a union orchestra job, you're required to join. If you want to do a "local audition" for an orchestra that has in-house auditions prior to opening it up to national candidates, join that particular union.
You don't need a union pension. You're going to get a bag of pee when you retire as a musician. As a musician, you can go to work as long as you want. You can die in the chair if you want, provided you aren't yelling at invisible monsters during concerts.
Functionally, you don't need your union.
However, the union DOES exist as a potent CONCEPT. I have been in unionized and "right to work" non-unionized orchestras. I have been witness to the power of a union as a belief system. A unionized orchestra doesn't take junk from the management and assumes the management is out to take advantage of them. That's a healthy belief when one considers the fact that management IS out to take advantage of the musicians and IS there to exploit the human machine they happen to manage.
"Right to work" orchestras are not as unified, and have no mechanism in place to effectively tackle management's indescretions.
A union orchestra or union job of any type is less likely to get screwed. That's the bottom line.

quote:

"Right to work" orchestras are not as unified, and have no mechanism in place to effectively tackle management's indescretions.
A union orchestra or union job of any type is less likely to get screwed. That's the bottom line.

AFAIK, there are only one or two non-union orchestras in the US that pay more than a few grand a year. I think Naples is non-union, Seattle has their own union. I dont know much about either one.

There are no "right to work" orchestras, only right to work STATES. In those states, you dont HAVE to be in the union, but I am assuming the other members of the Orchestra would probably not treat you very well. There could also be a situation where the Orchestra loses a recording gig if one member refuses to join.

In Jacksonville (FL) Symphony, you don't have to be a Union member. There are several members of the orchestra who dropped the union membership....all kind of different reasons, and I am thinking to do this myself . This is a negociation year for the orchestra and I really don't like where the committee(all union hardliners) are taking the orchestra

quote:

A unionized orchestra doesn't take junk from the management and assumes the management is out to take advantage of them. That's a healthy belief when one considers the fact that management IS out to take advantage of the musicians and IS there to exploit the human machine they happen to manage.

Can you give us some examples of how you have been taken advantage of and exploited by management?

I can do so in general terms. If I'm too specific, you'll know where I've worked.
I will simply say that the position of power given to executive management of orchestras can be used in a couple of different ways: 1. The top executive can do everything possible to make the orchestra an important, cultural resource. Or, 2. the top executive can ignore the needs of the human resource (players), make decisions that hurt them and destroy the final product all for the sake of self promotion and kick backs. A unionized orchestra can stop that behavior. A non-unionized orchestra cannot and will not. The executive who lords over a non-unionized orchestra and hasn't an ounce of conscience or morals can thrive.

Cygnus is right. I am well aware of the difference between "right to work" state and "right to work" orchestra. There is no such thing as a "right to work" orchestra. But, even though my wording was careless, I am sure my meaning came across perfectly well.