This is for those of you out there who managed to win at least one audition:
1. How many auditions had you failed before, if any?
2. At what age did you win your first position?
3. What instrument do you play?

I'm just curious because it seems that most people go through a tough phase before you finally make it.
Also, for those of you who are trying but haven't landed a job yet, how many have you done, and how much longer are you willing to keep trying?

quote:

1. How many auditions had you failed before, if any?
2. At what age did you win your first position?
3. What instrument do you play?

- At least five or six (the last being the Chicago Lyric audition in 1995).

- 26

- viola

Hi Michelle,

1. I took ten auditions (that I can remember) before I won my current position. The first seven of those I never made it out of prelims. And after that, I started being the runner-up. For me, the hard part was busting out of prelims (and still is!)

2. 26

3. viola

When I was in school, there was a rumor floating around that the average number of auditions one will take before winning is 14. I have no idea the source of that number, but I think the idea of it is sound - auditioning is something most of us have to practice over and over and over, and it may take a while to get anywhere.

1. I won the second audition I took, lost badly in a third, then won my fourth for my current job.

2. I was 22 when I won the first job, 23 when I won my current position.

3. I play viola.

Sam Bergman
Minnesota Orchestra

quote:

Originally posted by EmilyinSA:
When I was in school, there was a rumor floating around that the average number of auditions one will take before winning is 14. I have no idea the source of that number, but I think the idea of it is sound - auditioning is something most of us have to practice over and over and over, and it may take a while to get anywhere.

Just think of how much money one spends on going out to auditions if 14 is an approximation. If someone was to spend $750 for each audition, assuming that would include airfare, that is a whopping $10,500!

There's got to be a better way.

Similarly, after a while of auditioning for piano (or any instrumental) competitions, if you get known enough (in a positive sense), eventually it pays off. People hear you, get to know you, and then recommend you--even if you don't win the competitions or orchestral auditions at first, it gets around that you're available and ready--and the playing will reflect that and eventually land the position--there's no formula--just keep at it.

quote:

I'm just curious because it seems that most people go through a tough phase before you finally make it.
Also, for those of you who are trying but haven't landed a job yet, how many have you done, and how much longer are you willing to keep trying?

I'm one of those out there still trying, and I've taken six auditions so far. But how many more auditions I'll be taking, who knows. I'm fortunate that I'm single and don't have a family to support, so I only have my own obligations for now.

In addition, I took a good part of last year to perfect my horn playing, and made a break through. I guess that tough phase part is true, since now I feel that I just got started.

Three....
one, two, CRUNCH, thrrreeee.
Actually I won my first audition at 21.
I play violin.

It is a long arduous process, both physically and mentally but through perserverance and with conviction, one day will win the audition.

I think I won a permanent tenure-track job at my audition No. 27, at age 29, having turned down one offer (military band) at age 23. From then on I realized I shouldn't audition for jobs I didn't want. That means I probably could have won auditions earlier, but I gave myself a higher goal than just winning any orchestra job, which I now, after all this, think was a very wise choice.

Anyways, I have been employed full-time since day one after finishing my studies - preferring going to an audition for a one-year contract in a good orchestra over going to an audition for a permanent second-bassoon job in a mediocre one.

that's the real issue. spend time building your confidence on low level auditions and aim high. the challenge is knowing when to pull out of the auditions for orchestras you know you are not going to play for.

so, when do you know?

It was my 7th audition before I got a job, its not a great job, but over 70 people were there! Since then I stopped auditioning for a few years and started taking them again in the last 13 months. I've taken 4 - nothing yet but I will leave you with this. Each audition instead of being angry, sad or full of pity/jealousy I take a day or two off and really think about what I could have done better in my playing, my attention span or focus, my attitude not just on that day but during preparation and have always found many things to work on. It has been an exciting process and I am confident that I will get a position that will match my style. So don't give up - learn from each audition! The prize is that you will grow as a musician and isn't that what its all about anyway....(I try to tell my landlord this but....)

I started taking auditions while I was still in school, and was fortunate to win a position at the very end (May)of my last year! I think it was my fifth audition. I'm always slightly jealous that there seems to be quite a plethora of openings for other instruments (particularly strings), although there have been a LOT of major openings for my instrument as of late!

I won two viola auditions in a row in Holland at age 19. (I'm American). I took them on a fluke after my first year of college, and ended up taking one position and staying there for 17 years. I took at least 10 auditions in the time I played in my first job, most without success, occasionally progressing from first rounds, and then to my surprise won my current job at age 35 out of a field of 20 candidates. Not a huge turnout by American standards, but quite high for here.
I said surprised, because there is a very strong age bias, it seems to me, in European orchestras. While job ads can't legally post an age limit, old folks (35+) generally get told that: due to the unusually high number of candidates, yadda, yadda, yadda. In Germany, it seems, this is just plain understood.

quote:

Originally posted by James Hall:
I'm always slightly jealous that there seems to be quite a plethora of openings for other instruments

You should try classical guitar! Our only opportunities to perform are the limited number of solo performances we can create for ourselves (not much demand) and the even more limited number of ensemble performances we can get. I love ensemble playing, but there are very few good players where I live, and they tend to be very busy with teaching, playing in orchestras, and doing summer festivals.

Again, I am a flute, just out of school, and I have now been on about 5 auditions. I made a mistake of going for 3rd flute/picc jobs thinking they would be easier to get than principal flute. WRONG! I never worked much on picc., flute being my strong suit. I think now that I would have a better chance going for principal flute (that seems to require less, or no picc) in a smaller orchestra.....what say you? Also, this spending money to fly, eat, and live, losing money on your day job, etc. when the orchestra makes no choice has got to stop. (PSO, Phoenix) I say there should be a policy of sending a CD, professionally made with the engineer signing that it has not been altered in any way, as the prelim, and only flying out if you are chosen for the finals. Or, we should boycott even going for the prelims unless the orchestra mgmt. guarantees that someone will be chosen. Completely naive, or what??

I thought I'd chime in on this one since I've taken an audition or two.

I've taken 82 auditions. I won #6,10,11,12,15,25,31,then #39 I won my first full time, tenure track gig),48 and 51 I won 1-year positions,56,58,72, and I'm still waiting to hear about #82. So I guess the answer to how many you take until you give up is as many as it takes.

Josh MacCluer,
trumpet, St Louis Symphony

I won my first audition at age 26, and took over 20 (many of those repeats). I was never able to break into a better orchestra, and at this point in my life I've gotten a lot more picky about where I want to live. Now at the age of 41, something has killed my desire to make music or practice. Maybe it'll go away--who knows? That's why I may very well be in law school in 8 weeks.

(sorry--I posted too early--this is a continuation of my first post)
About 10 years ago I played for a Cleveland Orchestra member and I asked "how will I know when to throw in the towel?" His reply: "You'll know." Well, I never did know. In a way, auditioning is like gambling. We keep hoping the big payoff is just around the corner. There's simply no way to know if or when you'll
win. The question may change as you mature. Will you want to leave wherever you are? Will your values change? Can you afford to keep trying? There's no magic number for auditions.
Either you sound better than whoever else showed up, or you don't. Whatever happens, don't feel that you "lost"--that's completely
masochistic thinking. Good luck.
Nathan

The 40s seems to be a turning point--I don't believe our ethics change--I also believe the phrase 'we don't change, we just reveal ourselves more' is valid. The hopes and dreams most musicians have in younger years are often devalued by the realizations and realities of the music business, like any business. Auditions become expensive these days, and it also becomes a question of 'what will this job do for me if I get it?' 'do I really want to live there?' 'will this make me happy if I get the job and stay there for x number of years--if they'll keep me?' 'is that job really everything I thought it would be?' The bottom line is to survive and make enough money to survive--and be happy. More than that is gravy. Most might agree that everything has become very expensive recently, and in other topics such as 'throwing in the towel', these also apply.